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[…] These books, are a valuable resources for ANY women wanting to look her very best for ANY occasion. If you are still unsure about having your makeup done before a shoot, please see this post here at Darkmans Darkroom […]
Top Photography Books – Highly Recommended
Where’s the old site?
Peter Gowland Books
Great post, love the pattern on the wall cast by shooting thru the plants…
How did you do the lighting diagrams please?
Great post, thanks for your work!
Love the lighting diagrams, the lamp shot really conveys the film noir feeling.
Just so you know: you’ve been bookmarked 😉
mathias
Great blog and work. I have been pursuing it for a couple hours. Love this shot of Lindsey Lou, I had the pleasure of shooting with her several years ago, if memory serves me right it was her 2nd ever professional shoot. What a joy to work with she was and I have been happy to watch her growth as a model over the years.
Thanks for sending me this I’m a whore for Hurrell!
Can’t get enough of your work. Love the nostalgic look! Thanks so much for sharing the set ups and tips.
Love the shots and you answered a question in my mind as in what book to start with…
thanks
Love they way you capture that era! I never get tired of seeing these kinds of photo’s. Thanks
Wonderful choice of photo to discuss. Clearly you have described accurately where the lighting is coming.
I think it is important, however, to discuss the intensity of the lights and therefore how you labelled them. I suggest that the main light (or key light) is the soft-box on camera right. That would make the overhead boom light a super hair /rim light. I say “super” because it is doing much more than hair or rim. I prefer to just label some lights with respect to where they are and that light is a high back-light. As with many back-lights it is brighter than the main light. (by the way it is really important to note the light on the face and neck area – that is mostly coming from the main light.
The third light (left side of camera in front of model) is definitely a fill light. I heard Joe McNally recently define a fill light as one that you do not know is there until it is turned off. That is exactly what the left side light is doing.
So the upshot of my comments is that these lights were all different intensities as well as different qualities – which I won’t go into.
Kevin
Yeah Kevin, you really don’t know what you are talking about when it comes to Hurrell type photography. He didn’t use Softboxes, they didn’t have them back then. Joe Mcnally is a great photographer, but his style is totally different. You might try picking up one of Hurrells books which label the lights and learn the difference between Hollywood Glamour photography from back in the day, to the photography you are trying to impose on people.
Your labeling is all wrong. Sorry to say but when you talk my shop, you better know what you’re talking about or I’m gonna call you on your shit.
🙂
Larry
Wrong wrong wrong, Hurrell said his most important light was his boom light (which arguably he invented) and all other lights worked around that, in some of his pictures you can clearly see he is turning the focus knob on the back of his lights to either flood or spot.
Not sure where it is you think I am saying it’s not. I’m in fact not saying anything is important here just laying out the structure of the lighting.
Larry
The reply was aimed at the guy Kevin, he obviously has not read anything about Hurrell, and I have to agree with your synopsis on Hurrell Darkman, although I might not have put it so bluntly lol.
Very cool topic and well done being illustrated . Hollywood portraits have always been my favorite and it was what motivated me in wanting to become a photographer. Thanks for accepting me to your site.
Hello Mr Darkman,
My love for vintage style and photography have resulted in a passion for film noir shots. Unfortunately fresnel lights are out of my pricerange. Can you recommend a cheaper alternative – if there is any? My inner amateur engineer is pondering about architecture lamps and adding sides to them, but wanted a professional opinion.
Kind regards,
Mai Miller
Check on ebay, that’s where I get mine, and they are affordable!!!
I am in the beginnings of a film production program. This helped a lot! Especially the lighting/subject grid diagrams. Thank you!
What a fantastic series of photos – I love the lightning for these pictures. Great job. Gonna try it out my self – for sure 🙂
So gooD! i am an amateur going slowly into the big pool, i love your work and find it inspiring! i have a shoot to do in 2 weeks. its a 1920’s.
i am looking to source the lights.. can you give me recommendations on the fresnel. i found those online.. would they work?
Thank you for your time and great work.
Franck
Imitation is the highest form of flattery & recognition. I’m striving to reach your level. You and your models got it nailed, keep up the good work. Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays to all. Doc
Good job
They r usefull stuff to learn film noir
Thanku so much.
Hi and a Happy New Year, Great shots and advice as usual. I am in the process of assemblig the a set from A Touch of Evil, it’s the fist sight of Tanya (Marlele Deitrich) and would welcome your advice on the lighting.
Cheers Terry
Great inspiration and instruction. Thanks
John
Hi, good stuff and very informative, as a long time street and news rat doing more studio. I also like how you use an OM-1 to get a film cap or two. I bought my first OM-1 in 1977, it’s long gone but I still have my OM-4t and a Rolleiflex tlr and want to use them to do what you did, have a film cam with x-sync available– digitals are like the polaroid backs of the 21st century. anyway thanks and keep it up! JBLP
Are you in the LA area I will be coming down there next week and would love to pop by for a few minutes, depending on your schedule. Love your work. Hope to learn it.
are you in the LA area? I’ll be down there next week. I’d like to pop by.
Sorry but im in Denver…
Fantastic! Thank you for your work.
Great blog. Your pictures and diagrams are very well done. Only point, it would be cool if you also included info on the wattage of the fresnels light you used for your pictures.
Great site! Thank you for sharing your hard work and talent! Nice job!
Used it for my granddaughter. Worked first time thanks. You would be proud. Great website!
I really enjoyed your article. Very informative. I was wondering if you could give me the watt numbers for the lights? Are the low ones around 150 and highs around 650? I was also wondering if you thought these shadows and tones could be made with non-fresnel lights that still have the barn doors?
Thanks
Good Morning,
I have been watching your youtube videos, and been on your site numerous times in the recent months. I think your work is great, and would like to assist (or intern) if that is a possibility? Looking forward to your response.
Best Regards,
-Reed
Hi Larry,
I can’t say anything at the moment about the technical aspects. I am simply blown away by the photo. It is the first time I’ve seen it.
What a truly magnificent image.
Oh, and of course it must be a faux polar bear rug. Yeah, right, in those days they used the real thing without thinking twice.
Thanks for the photo.
I will now go back and read your analysis of the lighting.
Michael.
Hi Darkman
I love your tutorials and the non-condescending way you explain things, in every day language, it really helps novices understand what is going on, so thank you.
Could you tell me what wattage fresnels you tend to use the most? Am guessing probably 500w-650w?
Best wishes
PB
This entire post is just beautiful. I’ve only been recently getting into the noir genre of film. And to learn more about how they give that…noir vibe, is fascinating. Very nice post Darkman.
Any recommendations for a poor mans lighting setup for this kind of work? Is it possible? Just wondering. Student on a major budget. Can rent a studio but would like to create something on a budget at home. Ideas? links?
Thanks!
You can find the lights on ebay sometimes for dirt cheap. just look around and research before buying or bidding on something. most images there on the sirte were created in my small apartments livingroom at the time. Now I have a studio I use but close quarters can still be done.
Larry
Thanks Larry. Appreciate it.
Hey Jill, I would check ebay. I’ve gotten alot of good stuff on ebay before and it’s where I check first every time.
LArry
I love your work Darkman but the shadow under Mia’s nose in the Hollywood Glamour shot looks too hard and unnatural to me. I’m not sure about her mouth either, although maybe that is to do with the angle of the shot? It might even be to do with the quality of the post, but either way, I find it distracting.
Thanks for the comment Mike. I’m sure you are not comfortable with it as many people weren’t in the old days of Hurrells lack of “Rules” when he shot. if you look above that phto as the cover of the Hollywood portraits book, you might notice the same thing going on.
I supposed the shadow could have been re-arranged with lighting but I felt the shot was fine. But thanks for the comments!
Hi Larry, congrats on the best site of its type. Question is- when your thinking about the subject and lights, is there a specific set of shadows you want to see or usually look for/ try to bring out? Or maybe contours. hope I expressed it right. Thanks, Ralph
Somehow your versions are more glamorous. The first Daisy-Joan photo benefitted from your choice of a simpler background. I remember the old stocking technique – black stockings for men and natural for the women. Love your work. Keep clicking!
Wow! Glad people recognize the value of these negs. A question – isn’t nitrate difficult to store properly? Seems like I remember reading something to that effect. When they auctioned off Mary Pickford’s dresses, some of the buyers just threw them in the washer and after destroying them wanted their money back. So I hope the buyer of Hurrell’s gorgeous negative knows his archival storage techniques! Thanks for the article!
Hi Darkman,
I took a Hollywood Glamour photography class about two years ago and fell in love with the style. Since then I have been studying the genre at great length and 2 days ago I bought my first set of hot lights!
(2) X 650W Fresnel Tungsten Light With Globes
(2) X 300W Fresnel Tungsten Light With Globes
(4) x Air Cushioned Stands
(4) x Dimmers
I also bought a set of gobos for that classic cukaloris effect.
Anyway, I just wanted to thank you for your generosity and for sharing your techniques and your studio with us. It is an inspiration and a relief that I can pull off this kind of art without needing a big studio. I love that you are doing many of the same things we did in class and that you use the same vocabulary. Clearly, you are able to do this kind of work and do it beautifully. I found your portfolio impressive. I wish I had known about you when I was taking the class, I would have shared this site with the other students. I will come back often to see what you have been up to. THANK YOU for your expertise and for running a robust website with a lot of relevant content.
My lights arrive in a few weeks. Wish me luck!
-Wayne S. (Shutterbear)
would love to see some of your stuff now hat you’ve gotten your stuff.
Hi Larry
Great photos!
thank you!
Larry
I had a few questions for you. I’ve noticed other photographers, namely, Damien Lovegrove, who is able to achieve great noir at 100 ISO!
http://www.lovegrovephotography.com/lovegrove-in-hollywood/
When I shoot with moody light I cannot seem to get my ISO below 400, which makes things grainy. Any tips?
Also, what brand/make of Fresnel lights are you using?
Hey Mike, Some of my lights are arri or altman, mole and something else I can’t remember. that’s my oldest one from the 50’s from a movie studio. I usually buy mine off ebay or locally if I can find them, as cheap as I can find them too. Do you have his video and his he specifically stating 100ISO? because from the video preview it looks like he’s using small lights, maybe 500watt at most, and I’ve never really shot at 100ISO, unless maybe getting super close to the subject so the light is brighter. I don’t remember having any issues with grain unless it’s higher than 400, but then I am also using digital and a little post process helps minimize that. I’ve also shot film but use 400ISO for that too. Is there a specific reason you are looking to get 100ISO? the only other way would be to increase your wattage in fresnel but you take a chance on blinding your subject hahahaha…
I also shoot in B/W, I don’t color convert.
Mike, just watched his sample chapter and he IS using higher wattage, 100’s so that’s how he’s getting it down to 100ISO.
He’s also using LED Fresnel which I’ve never used, I’ve always used the older tungsten lights which are f-ing hot.
Larry
Yes, that would explain it, he’s got higher wattage but if you look at his sample tutorial video, man it’s dark in there. Maybe in that video he’s shooting at a higher ISO.
The reason I’m asking is I’ve been shooting at 400 with plenty of light on digital camera [Canon Rebel ti3] with a 28-55 zoom lens] and the photos look really grainy when I enlarge them on the screen, and they are so pixelated.
Must be my aperature, I’m not recalling what that was offhand but I know I was getting a lot of blur shooting handheld.
Shooting models with fixed lighting 1 Linco light tent with 4 bulb flourescents head.
Looks good when I use flash fill but can’t really get the moody lighting that way.
I’m gonna have to spring for the Fresnels and use a monopod I think.
I’m going to stop you right there.
You can’t do this style and get “The Look” with light tents and strobe. (period).
wtahc some of my videos and look at the behind the scenes post. as well as his.
There is a video/post where I do a shoot with strobe, softbox and grid with also a bare bulb, it’s just NOT the same. Too soft on the lighting.
toss the monopod and get a tripod. You’ll be happy you did.
and get THIS BOOK: it’s where I got my start it will help you immensely:
Hollywood Portraits and how to take them:
http://amzn.to/2chkguj
Yes, I agree, I was not clear, I’m mixing my subjects. What I mean to say is that for the kind of model shoots I am doing, I have light tents set up already, this isn’t noir, it’s brightly lit studio style stuff, but I have to move around FAST, so my tripod gets in the way. The monopod will help keep camera steady shooting at the slower speeds.
I was trying to do some lower light shadow noir stuff with that setup and it didn’t work very well. 🙂
The book you mention I already have, just got it a few weeks ago its great. But yes, I realize to shoot noir style I am going to need the proper lighting and that is fresnels, not light tents and for that I will likely use tripod.
yeah that book is AWESOME! LOVE IT< it's the 1 book I recommend to everyone, it is, in my opinion the definitive book for everyone to have if there was a class on this. that would be my text book. Make sure you send some of your stuff over so we can check it out when you are ready.
I can send you over one of my studio shots in RAW CR2 maybe you can have a look. Do you have a direct way for me to send it? I don’t want to post it publicly, if that’s ok
https://www.darkmansdarkroom.com/model-submission/
file submit on there, let me know if it doesn’t work should though.
Larry I used the model submit interface, did you receive them ok? If so, check the metadata on those 2 photos, and if you would advise different settings.
in his sample chapter he’s shooting at ISO 800.
You’re one step ahead of me! Ha ha well, yes, that would explain it. Jeez his photos look so tack sharp and crisp, they leap off the page!
I’ll bet this question is extremely elementary, so I apologize for that, but I’ll never know the answer if I don’t ask: can I get away with using some other bright, continuous light instead of a Fresnal lamp, as long as I can control its breadth and direction?
Curt you can *try* but it won’t work. the fresnel lens is what makes it.
Darkman your description of the lighting is completely different to your diagram.
Quote: “The next light is a narrow focus photo flood light to the left of the camera at about 90 degrees from the subject”
yet in your diagram the narrow focus flood light is at the right of the camera??
So which is correct the diagram or the description?
Very confusing…
thanks for catching that, it’s camera right, not left. Thanks
Hi Larry
Loving your Hollywood style images, Something were recreating whenever we get the chance in The Old Bakery Studio in Poole, Glamorous and creative, fantastic and thanks for the tips
That last shot’s a beauty, It seem’s me and you are obsessed with Hollywood lighting and photographers lol
Love your work! Lots of great ideas for a beginning photographer like myself. Keep up the awesome work. Thanks